Possible kidney issues of CEE

[rjet]

I thought I would post a like to a thread on anabolic minds that I started. I think it may be very helpful to many and answer some questions you may not have known to ask:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...hyl-ester.html

If for some reason the link doesn't work, go to anabolicminds.com and search for the thread started by "workin2005" titled, "Kidney trouble on CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester)" in the supplement section.

Basically, CEE may be very harmful to your kidneys, much more than other forms of creatine.

[Suareezay]

ill have to check it out

thanks

[rjet]

Sure ;-)

[Suareezay]

i think the moral of the story is
1. dont have kidney problems
2. drink water
and you can take CEE without problems

[rjet]

i think the moral of the story is
1. dont have kidney problems
2. drink water
and you can take CEE without problems

I was drinking a ton of water and still had problems. I don't think everyone will react the way I did, but some will.

I would say the moral of the story is if you decide to take CEE, don't over do it and pay attention to your kidneys. If you begin to feel any discomfort in your lower back, stop immediatly. I would also advise a blood test prior to and then a few weeks into the cycle. Just my thoughts....

[Winter]

What kind of kidney discomfort were you feeling? Was it a pain that was always botherin you or something?

[rjet]

It felt like I strained or injured my lower back. In fact, I thought that's what it was for a while. I suspected my kidney when one side started hurting much more than the other...

[Winter]

So I'm taking it that it was a constant pain that stayed with you?

[rjet]

Yes, very much like a lower back injury would feel...

[Tafman]

Yes, very much like a lower back injury would feel...

sounds like a kidney stone

my back hurt bad for a few days, then i got a attack and it made me throw up for a few hours until i got to a hospital. i passed it a week later. was half the size of a quarter. now i go easy on the red meat and salt and double up on the water

[GetNSwole]

tafman. you always have entertaining pictures.

CEE doesn't like me.

[macro]

there is no evidence that creatine ethyl ester is harder on kidneys than any other type of creatine. it is quite possible that you had an underlying condition that was exacerbated by creatine ethyl ester or that you had an abnormal reaction to it.

having used CEE extensively with a ton of other compounds that actually do place strain on the kidneys and consuming 350grams + protein per day, can say conclusively no issues here.

[rjet]

there is no evidence that creatine ethyl ester is harder on kidneys than any other type of creatine. it is quite possible that you had an underlying condition that was exacerbated by creatine ethyl ester or that you had an abnormal reaction to it.

having used CEE extensively with a ton of other compounds that actually do place strain on the kidneys and consuming 350grams + protein per day, can say conclusively no issues here.

If you read the entire thread on Anabolic minds and bodybuilding.com I think you will see I ruled out those possibilities. I was a long time user of Creatine Monohydrate and many other supplements with no kidney issues to speak of. CEE was the first and only supplement to aggrivate them. I didn't think it was CEE at first, but many blood tests later (both on CEE and off CEE and on other forms of creatine) I came to the conclusion that it was CEE particularly that gave me kidney trouble. Read the entire post bro...it would have to be one heck of a coincidence for it not to be the CEE that caused it.
I'm not saying everyone will respond to CEE the way I did, I'm just reporting my experince. Sure, their are a ton of things that can cause kidney issues, too much protien, dehydration ect...I just want others to be aware that CEE should be added to that list and approched with caution. It caused a MAJOR issue with me, and may with others...in fact, based on the many responses on Anabolic Minds and Bodybuilding.com, it has.
I mean no disrespect, I just wouldn't carelessly dismiss it as a potential problem for others, just because you haven't experinced any problems of your own. I would normally agree with you in that many tend to pin point a problem being caused by a particular substance, when their are a ton of other possibilities. I asure you though, that was not the case with me.

[macro]

have read the thread on AM. the same conclusion holds true. Either you had an underlying condition that was exacerbated by the CEE (or other ingredient combined with CEE) and not by the other creatines (with lower bioavailability), you had an unusual issue with CEE (or other ingredients), or the third possibility (not listed above) the CEE you got was not pure and the impurities caused your issues (some lots tested at 30% others tested as material that was not even CEE at all).

you said were using CEX which has 3 different formulas, which one? One of those other ingredients, could also be the cause

[macro]

just as a note- the title of your thread is innapropriate and innaccurate. Had you said, "I had serious kidney issues with CEE", that would have been appropriate. But the title of your thread is "CEE is harmful to the kidneys".

just for future reference

[rjet]

have read the thread on AM. the same conclusion holds true. Either you had an underlying condition that was exacerbated by the CEE (or other ingredient combined with CEE) and not by the other creatines (with lower bioavailability), you had an unusual issue with CEE (or other ingredients), or the third possibility (not listed above) the CEE you got was not pure and the impurities caused your issues (some lots tested at 30% others tested as material that was not even CEE at all).

you said were using CEX which has 3 different formulas, which one? One of those other ingredients, could also be the cause

I used both the powder and the caps, the caps have only CEE in them....same result. If you truely read the thread, and really saw how many DIFFERENT people reported the same thing with CEE, I have no idea how you could respond the way you did and draw the conclusion you did....I have no agenda here at all. Do you?
You are a moderator, with tons of experince, as you have clearly pointed out under your user name. People look to you for advice as someone who has been in the industry for awhile. I would be careful dismissing this as you have. I have stated that I had NO pre existing kidney conditions. I was taking NO other supplements that were any different than what I have always taken.....fish oil, protien, multi, vita-c. I've had numerous blood tests over the years while taking these supplemets with ABSOLUTLY NO SIGN OF KIDNEY PROBLEMS. CEE was the first and only supplement to affect me this way. If that isn't enough to make you question the safety of CEE in some individuals...or at least admit it's worth looking into, I question what would be. How about MANY other people reporting the same issues with CEE?
As someone in an influential position, I would expect more....again, unless you have some sort of agenda.

[rjet]

just as a note- the title of your thread is innapropriate and innaccurate. Had you said, "I had serious kidney issues with CEE", that would have been appropriate. But the title of your thread is "CEE is harmful to the kidneys".

just for future reference

You've got to be joking....

[rjet]

just as a note- the title of your thread is innapropriate and innaccurate. Had you said, "I had serious kidney issues with CEE", that would have been appropriate. But the title of your thread is "CEE is harmful to the kidneys".

just for future reference

I just realized you sell CEE...That explains a lot....

[joshbeam1]

i never had any probs w/cee or ne other form of creatine

[macro]

You've got to be joking....

not really. you made a declarative statement for which you have no real evidence.

if you start taking protien, and thats the only change you made, and you get cancer- does that mean that the protein caused the cancer?

if you take other proteins and they dont give you cancer then those proteins dont cause cancer, but the original one did.


know a lot of people that use CEE, not one of them has complained of any issues. Everyone of them found it to be a lot better than monohydrate.


as mentioned above- it is certainly possible that you have some anomalous reaction to CEE, however it does not justify your irresponsible declarative statements which you have posted on multiple forums.

[macro]

I've had numerous blood tests over the years while taking these supplemets with ABSOLUTLY NO SIGN OF KIDNEY PROBLEMS.

why have you had numerous blood tests?

normally blood tests are only done if something is wrong.



you are certainly entitled to beleive that CEE caused your problem, as are other entitled to hold that your beleif is wrong

[macro]

If that isn't enough to make you question the safety of CEE in some individuals...or at least admit it's worth looking into

you post up a scan of those tests, will be sure to look them over. However, even then its just one person. If several people had such test results, verified, then it might be worth looking into. Though mechanistically there is no biochemical differences between the various creatines that would cause such issues.

and since there are probably well over a hundred thousand people that have used various CEE's- with almost zero reports of issues on the forums. Well... its just not really an issue...

have seen some reports of kidney pain with various creatines, which is almost certainly due to a combination high protein intake, inadequate water intake and creatine use.

you would also be surprised how much a heavy workout, dehydration, a higher protein intake (even just a single high protein meal) can affect kidney marker values.

[macro]

most kidney issues in this arena are related to dehydration and high protein intake, which could be exacerbated by CEE or creatine use. though then again all these things cause markers to increase, markers that are normally caused by metabolic disfunction (here they are due to direct substrate supplementation). creatinine levels will always be high with creatine use.

[rjet]

have read the thread on AM. the same conclusion holds true. Either you had an underlying condition that was exacerbated by the CEE (or other ingredient combined with CEE) and not by the other creatines (with lower bioavailability), you had an unusual issue with CEE (or other ingredients), or the third possibility (not listed above) the CEE you got was not pure and the impurities caused your issues (some lots tested at 30% others tested as material that was not even CEE at all).

you said were using CEX which has 3 different formulas, which one? One of those other ingredients, could also be the cause

There was NO underlying condition that caused my kidney trouble. Iwas the3 CEE. We rulered any thing else out.Sorry you were not there when the blood tests came in on multipldifferrent issuses. Did deep my frind, its not to hard to find. I answer is simple. CEE needs to be looked at the effectes it has on many other athletes. We should question the safety Of CEE, particularly with regurd to one's kidney...

[jcp2]

What problem would the esther cause? I am not getting this. What would the difference be as compared to regular creatine.

Also i agree with macro on the thread title, so i changed it. I don't think making unrealistic claims regarding perfectly legal products is a great idea. But i would like to see info on other peoples problems with the product, as i have taken it, and will continue to do so.