Waxy Maise Starch - Post Your Review

[Easto]

Here are reviews of TrueProtein's Waxy Maise Starch. I have't tried it yet, but I will be picking up a few pounds with my next TP order. I know there are some people on this board, who have tried it, so post up your reviews!!!

Tropinon - Contest Prep guru

Members Review on IntenseMuscle

[adidamps2]

only used it once so far 60g w/ 60g of whey iso and milk...did not feel anything special..next time will leave the milk out..and go with 60/60 whey/WM..and see how that goes.

[DirkMoneyshot]

I'll give you my honest opinion. Is it a majic pill like some claim. Nope - Its really no different then the vitargo that has been on the market for years.

The thing that makes it great is the ability to take in more carbs then what one could eat with whole food. Eating 600 - 800g of carbs is a lot rice, potato, pasta, etc. With this you can supplement with your whole foods, and not negatively effect your diet (like with dextrose or maltodextrin.

Is it something i use with individuals. Yep i have for the last 2 years. Not the waxy maize but the vitargo which is the same thing.

Just remember that the Postworkout is no more important then the other 4 - 5 meals during the day.

[Suareezay]

The thing that makes it great is the ability to take in more carbs then what one could eat with whole food.

not really.

the thing that makes it so great is its incredibly high molecular weight that allows it to spend very little time in the stomach...not that it makes any substantial difference for most though.

people have made vague references to its potential when used with insulin, but when you get into that territory, normal rules dont even apply.

i definatly agree with the importance of PWO nutrition in relation to every other meal being grossly exagerrated

[DirkMoneyshot]

not really.

the thing that makes it so great is its incredibly high molecular weight that allows it to spend very little time in the stomach...not that it makes any substantial difference for most though.

people have made vague references to its potential when used with insulin, but when you get into that territory, normal rules dont even apply.

i definatly agree with the importance of PWO nutrition in relation to every other meal being grossly exagerrated

[SteelSouth]

I'll give you my honest opinion. Is it a majic pill like some claim. Nope - Its really no different then the vitargo that has been on the market for years.

The thing that makes it great is the ability to take in more carbs then what one could eat with whole food. Eating 600 - 800g of carbs is a lot rice, potato, pasta, etc. With this you can supplement with your whole foods, and not negatively effect your diet (like with dextrose or maltodextrin.

Is it something i use with individuals. Yep i have for the last 2 years. Not the waxy maize but the vitargo which is the same thing.

Just remember that the Postworkout is no more important then the other 4 - 5 meals during the day.

Dirk, what is the normal amount for this in a PWO shake as opposed to dextrose/malto?

[DirkMoneyshot]

Explain to me why having a high molecular weight will have an impact on your BB goals. Since this is "Greater" then being able to take in more kcals????

I'm sure you can't find it in one of my old posts like most of the info you take from them.

[DirkMoneyshot]

Dirk, what is the normal amount for this in a PWO shake as opposed to dextrose/malto?

1st) i have never liked dextrose or malto postworkout. Before Vitargo i always had people use complex carbs plus simple sugars like raisins and honey.

Ex: This also makes a great breakfast just change out the whey and add egg whites

50g Whey Isolate
1 cup Old Fashion Oats
1/4 cup Raisins
2 tbsp Honey


When Vitargo came out i basically was able to eliminate the raisins and some oats.

So your question is how many carbs do "YOU" need.

I would get at least 1/3 of your carbs Postworkout. Of those carbs probably about 1/3 - 1/2 should come from vitargo or waxy maize.

[mister69]

great thread

[SteelSouth]

1st) i have never liked dextrose or malto postworkout. Before Vitargo i always had people use complex carbs plus simple sugars like raisins and honey.

Ex: This also makes a great breakfast just change out the whey and add egg whites

50g Whey Isolate
1 cup Old Fashion Oats
1/4 cup Raisins
2 tbsp Honey


When Vitargo came out i basically was able to eliminate the raisins and some oats.

So your question is how many carbs do "YOU" need.

I would get at least 1/3 of your carbs Postworkout. Of those carbs probably about 1/3 - 1/2 should come from vitargo or waxy maize.

Thanks for the reply Dirk, I think i'll pick some up. I'm cutting right now but during my next bulker i'll be taking in around 600g of carbs each day and adding this to a shake with oats a couple of times a day will definately help.

[DirkMoneyshot]

Thanks for the reply Dirk, I think i'll pick some up. I'm cutting right now but during my next bulker i'll be taking in around 600g of carbs each day and adding this to a shake with oats a couple of times a day will definately help.

See this is my point about why its special (not the molecular weight). If you were to divide those 600g of carbs over 6 meals you would need 100 / meal.

100g of Carbs!! Thats a lot of whole food.

FOr example

2 cups Old Fashion Oats (or)
20 oz. Baby Red Potato or Sweet Potato (or)
1 1/2 cups brown rice (uncooked)

Thats a lot of damn food. Most people don't have the appetite to eat that much.

However if you take in say 1/2 of those and supplement the rest with vitargo or a good portion of it you have a much easier time.

Remember there are dozens of studies out that show Liquid Kcals don't affect how much an individual can eat in whole foods. Think about all those extra kcals are in soda's people drink everyday. Those studies show people did not change their eating when they stoped drinking them.

[DirkMoneyshot]

Also so people understand what i'm saying.

We'll take that 600g Carbs for example above:

In this case we'll use 1/3 as 600 is a pretty high amount of carbs for most.

600 / 3 = 200

So 200g Carbs Postworkout:
66 - 100g Carbs should come from the vitargo. The other through whole food sources.

[Suareezay]

Explain to me why having a high molecular weight will have an impact on your BB goals. Since this is "Greater" then being able to take in more kcals????

I'm sure you can't find it in one of my old posts like most of the info you take from them.

lets see what TP has to say about WM

So what’s so special with Waxy Maize in comparison to dextrose or maltodextrin? Many people have used a mix of dextrose and maltodextrin for post workout nutrition for years because it works and is vital for proper glycogen replenishment. Welcome to the new era of post workout nutrition… Waxy Maize Starch. WMS has a much higher molecular weight and a much lower osmolarity rate compared to dextrose or maltodextrin, so what does this mean… Mainly, WMS bypasses the stomach, is absorbed by the intestines and immediately is assimilated; this is all done at a much faster rate than dextrose or maltodextrin, almost double.

WMS can help the absorption rates of many of your favorite supplements like creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester, cell volumization and nitric oxide type supplements, etc. Nutrients like this often times are left in the stomachs harsh acidic environment and degrade absorption rates. WMS helps shuttle these nutrients to bypass the stomach and allow the body to assimilate these nutrients at a much higher rate.

WMS has the ability to replenish the body’s glycogen stores much faster than a mix of maltodextrin or dextrose. This is accomplished again by WMS’s ability to bypass the stomach and go to the intestines for immediate absorption. WMS’s ability to shuttle all these nutrients and starch gives the body an immediate "pump" you can physically feel in your muscles post workout. You will see a much larger, fuller and rounder muscle belly.

Dextrose and maltodextrin can cause water retention and bloating, hence WMS’s popularity with pre contest and contest preparation carbohydrate replenishment. Many dieters choose WMS as their carb of choice as it is sugar free and an ideal source of a long chain complex carbohydrate.

cliffs: WM shuttles other powders through the stomach into the intestines faster than any other carb, allowing for faster/better absorption. Arguably not as fast as WM alone, but faster than without the WM.

The glycogen restoring aspect of it is useless for BBing purposes, but i guess it could be advantageous to someone in an endurance sport, or someone with multiple workouts in one day.

thats funny...im not seeing anything about "being able to take in lots of carbs" as one of its attributes. That can be accomplished with any powdered complex carb source (ground oats, malto, etc) and has nothing to do with WM-specific properties.

not to mention people are reporting being fuller on stage when using WM as opposed to other carbs.

and im not understanding the reference to me taking info form your old posts. explain this one to me.

[Suareezay]

dirk...we also could have accepted "being able to replenish glycogen while not having a major impact on insulin levels" as an advantage to using WM, but not "being able to take in a lot of carbs". sorry, no dice.

[DirkMoneyshot]

lets see what TP has to say about WM



cliffs: WM shuttles other powders through the stomach into the intestines faster than any other carb, allowing for faster/better absorption. Arguably not as fast as WM alone, but faster than without the WM.

The glycogen restoring aspect of it is useless for BBing purposes, but i guess it could be advantageous to someone in an endurance sport, or someone with multiple workouts in one day.

thats funny...im not seeing anything about "being able to take in lots of carbs" as one of its attributes. That can be accomplished with any powdered complex carb source (ground oats, malto, etc) and has nothing to do with WM-specific properties.

not to mention people are reporting being fuller on stage when using WM as opposed to other carbs.

and im not understanding the reference to me taking info form your old posts. explain this one to me.

Good to see your going by what an ADVERTISMENT says- Let me ask you this. How does your carb source which has a high molecular weight shuttle your CEE or Protein powder faster when these have Lower weights and will not be digested yet. Explain this to me!!

So your saying taking in more carbs is not advantagous although its "Not listed on their product label" its common ****ing sense. How is it differnt then using MALTO or ground oats. SIMPLE yOUR INSULIN RELEASE. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. Something you won't get with vitargo.

Use your head

As far as my posts- I don't even need to explain that. You would already know where you took info and passed it along.

As far as the Fuller - Fullness has nothing to do with type but amounts..plain and simple.

[DirkMoneyshot]

dirk...we also could have accepted "being able to replenish glycogen while not having a major impact on insulin levels" as an advantage to using WM, but not "being able to take in a lot of carbs". sorry, no dice.

Again show me how not taking in more carbs not being an advantage.

[Suareezay]

Good to see your going by what an ADVERTISMENT says- Let me ask you this. How does your carb source which has a high molecular weight shuttle your CEE or Protein powder faster when these have Lower weights and will not be digested yet. Explain this to me!!

beats the shit out of me, but the owners of TP seem to think it does judging from their posts on other boards.

So your saying taking in more carbs is not advantagous although its "Not listed on their product label" its common ****ing sense. How is it differnt then using MALTO or ground oats. SIMPLE yOUR INSULIN RELEASE. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. Something you won't get with vitargo.

Being able to take in more carbs is an advantage to powdered carbs, but its not a WM-specific advantage. Thats like saying that driving to work is better than walking because you can listen to music. Yea...well you could also listen to music with an Ipod while you walk, youre kind of ignoring all the other advantages of the CAR.

Use your head

you YOUR head

As far as my posts- I don't even need to explain that. You would already know where you took info and passed it along.

yea, make a vague reference to me taking info form you, because, unbeknownst to everyone else, all information in the universe originated from DirkMoneyshot, and therefore the passing along or interpreting of ANY and ALL information constitutes stealing it from Dirk.

Give me one link to a post ive made where said something that could have come from you and only you...like maybe saying "my name is dirk moneyshot and this is my workout routine". I dont ever recall saying that though. Right.

As far as the Fuller - Fullness has nothing to do with type but amounts..plain and simple.

oh ok, my bad, i thought being "full" onstage was a positive attribute. Thanks for clearing that up. I always though "flat" was bad, but i guess its good, and full is bad. Boy was I wrong:thumbup:
[/QUOTE]

[DirkMoneyshot]

Where the hell did i say that being full onstage was not an advantage??? I didn't- I said it has nothing to do with type of carb, but the amount.

So back to the molecular weight: If it beats the shit out of you then how do you know what they are saying is true. They are trying to sale a product. Just like Muscletech Celltech is the greatest thing ever invented.

Taking in carbs by WM is differnt from other carbs because of its effects on insulin. I would never tell someone during their day to combine rice with some dextrose. To fullfill their carbohydrate requirements.

You are correct that i didn't invent everything, and i can not take claim for everything i know but i give credit to the people i learned from. That might be Tom Prince or Roger Smesch or a few others i have had help with my nutrition.

[Suareezay]

Where the hell did i say that being full onstage was not an advantage??? I didn't- I said it has nothing to do with type of carb, but the amount.

oops...read that one too quickly, i thought you said something else.

but about the fullness issue...there is a member on another board who said he came in fuller than hes ever come in before and attributed it to WM. I dont think he has any connection to TP.

So back to the molecular weight: If it beats the shit out of you then how do you know what they are saying is true. They are trying to sale a product. Just like Muscletech Celltech is the greatest thing ever invented.

TP isnt MuscleTech. DC isnt going to throw around claims about a product just to make a quick buck on a new gimmick. Everything ive read about it, and the testimonials ive heard lead me to believe that the other substances can be shuttled through the stomach quicker than without WM. To my knowledge it hasnt been proven either way.

Taking in carbs by WM is differnt from other carbs because of its effects on insulin. I would never tell someone during their day to combine rice with some dextrose. To fullfill their carbohydrate requirements.

exactly, but you made no mention of insulin in any of your posts. All you said was that WM allows you to get in more carbs, as if that was some staggering advantage that WM had over all other carb sources. I mean hell you can get more carbs in your diet by eating smarties, but I wouldnt exactly say that smarties have any advantage over any other carbs because of that.

You are correct that i didn't invent everything, and i can not take claim for everything i know but i give credit to the people i learned from. That might be Tom Prince or Roger Smesch or a few others i have had help with my nutrition.

so...you want a cookie or something?

well i have some cooking to do...i mean, searching for DirkMoneyShots' posts so I can use his old info, oops, i mean....shit, i had it right the first time.

im not a big fan of people who bullshit to make themselves look better, or guys with douche complexes that for some reason believe people steal their "info".

[DirkMoneyshot]

Justin Harris (and yes Justin has ties to TP) said he came in fuller and he's probably right he did. You can contribute this two several reasons. He started his diet at 16 weeks out and probably only needed to lose 8 - 10 lbs of fat. That means his diet was not as hard as the times before. He kept lean in the offseason and didn't need to deplete to get in shape. Second he took in more carbs this time around. Period - End of Story.

As for Dante your right i think he has a good product and is and honest man. However the claims are like any other manufacture. You have to make money plain and simple.
As for proving them right or wrong. That is the easiest thing in the world. When a product has a molecular weight of 60,000 daltons and another (protein) has one of lets use a hydro protein which is about 520 what do you think happens. Simple Physiology explains this---

As for the more carbs in your right i should have said because of insulin effects in the first post. However i would think any intelligent individual could think for themself as no one in their right mind would supplement with a carb source (High fructose corn syrup or the likes) just to get in extra carbs. No one would do that which make WM different.

As far as my posts- Where did you come up with using Granny Smith Apples??? I can think of no one who uses them on this board or mentioned them. Can you tell me why You would use them over others?

I'll pull out other meal suggestions that are the same as mine if you like.

And as far as BS'ing i'm not sure when i started doing that. I've given straight forward advice for 3 years here to anyone who wanted it.

The douche bag comment like i said if you would give credit to those who deserve it then we wouldn't have this problem. A simple hey i tried this because So and So recommend it is a lot better then trying to pawn it off as your own.

[Suareezay]

Justin Harris (and yes Justin has ties to TP) said he came in fuller and he's probably right he did. You can contribute this two several reasons. He started his diet at 16 weeks out and probably only needed to lose 8 - 10 lbs of fat. That means his diet was not as hard as the times before. He kept lean in the offseason and didn't need to deplete to get in shape. Second he took in more carbs this time around. Period - End of Story.

is that Tropinon (sp?)? If so, judging from his posts, he's all over WM. He said he went up 8 lbs in one day using WM with little to no loss in conditioning, going up another 3 the next day. Obviously his conditioning had a lot to do with it, but the WM didnt hurt.

And just to make it clear, i dont think WM is a wonder supp or anything along those lines. I group it with effective, but unecesary supps like BCAAs that 99% of the people out there dont really need

As for Dante your right i think he has a good product and is and honest man. However the claims are like any other manufacture. You have to make money plain and simple.
As for proving them right or wrong. That is the easiest thing in the world. When a product has a molecular weight of 60,000 daltons and another (protein) has one of lets use a hydro protein which is about 520 what do you think happens. Simple Physiology explains this---

Thats all way over my head, but plenty of people seem to believe that other powders are shuttled along with the WM.

As for the more carbs in your right i should have said because of insulin effects in the first post. However i would think any intelligent individual could think for themself as no one in their right mind would supplement with a carb source (High fructose corn syrup or the likes) just to get in extra carbs. No one would do that which make WM different.

why would anyone supplement with HFCS? Is that even a marketed supplement? Ive never seen it, or if i have, never paid any attention to it.

anyone who buys a weight gainer is supplementing with maltodextrin, or dextrose, or whatever carbs they use in various weight gainers.

As far as my posts- Where did you come up with using Granny Smith Apples??? I can think of no one who uses them on this board or mentioned them. Can you tell me why You would use them over others?

I'll pull out other meal suggestions that are the same as mine if you like.

Ive eaten granny smiths ever since i was a kid, its what my mom bought 99% of the time, and rarely ever had red delicious, golden delicious, mcintosh, etc. I always have a 15g whey shake and 30g fruit pre workout. I also recommend fruit medleys (a frozen blend of strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, and raspberries) pre workout, as well as bananas. Ive also recommended eggs, oatmeal, steak, chicken, and various other foods in the past. But lemme guess, you recommended a granny smith to someone before, and therefore since i have as well, and youve been a member here longer, i am "plagarizing" you. You must be joking.

And as far as BS'ing i'm not sure when i started doing that. I've given straight forward advice for 3 years here to anyone who wanted it.

im not arguing that

The douche bag comment like i said if you would give credit to those who deserve it then we wouldn't have this problem. A simple hey i tried this because So and So recommend it is a lot better then trying to pawn it off as your own.

recommending fruit is "pawning it off as my own"? Like I said, you must be joking.

[Suareezay]

uh oh, looks like rich genetics is stealing your knowledge Dirk
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/sh...14&postcount=1

heres another guy that stole "your" idea of eating an apple pre workout
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/sh...18&postcount=1

and here i already tell you that i have apples preworkout, but like you said, im just plagarizing it from you
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/sh...5&postcount=12
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/sh...4&postcount=13

[adidamps2]

tried it again toady by it self actually felt hit me..wierd? also i must say this is one of the messiest powders i have ever used.

[adidamps2]

using this now for 2 weeks and no significant differnce for me over dextrose/malto mix

[SteelSouth]

using this now for 2 weeks and no significant differnce for me over dextrose/malto mix

Interesting... i'll be running Vitargo(60g) plus two servings of Oats PWO in about 3 weeks. I'll post results, I know it's not from TP, but it's still waxy maise. I'll be placing an order with TP soon though, the Vitargo is too pricey.