Compare and Contrast

[slickg3]

I have researched and researched and researched on fat loss supplements until I can't do it anymore. It seems as those everyone has a different opinion or view on which supplements work the best. I have come to the conclusion to give an ECY stack a try, but sill have some answered questions. Ephedra, Ephedrene, Ephedrene HCL...... we have here three names. I know Ephedrene HCL is different, but what about the other two? Are they the same thing? Depending on your answer which is the best fat burner? And which can I count on to be the safest as far as side effects go? I found several different products from Pure Ephedrene, Stacker 2, 3, and Vaso Pro. Of these and others you are familiar with what is recommended and why? (Hopefully based on prior use and knowledge) Do I have to use the CY to complete the stack or would caffeine be the only necessary add-on? Is the ECY stack the safest supplement stack I can use or would say Vaso Pro and Dymatize Dymaburn work more effectively? I just can't seem to find complete answers to these questions, and I really want to add this on to my workouts. Please help!!

[Suareezay]

all ephedrine is the same. just get the 25mg tablets/pills/gel caps/whatever.
use it with 200mg caffeine.
take it every 2 hours 3 times a day.

if you use yohimbine, only use yohimbine HCL, not yohimbe bark extract.
dont take E and Y together. You can take them on the same day but make sure you take them 3-4 hours apart. Together they can cause heart rate and blood pressure problems.

[Suareezay]

oh and yohimbine works best with no food/carbs in your system, so take it before early morning cardio with 200mg caffeine.

[slickg3]

Ok....well I have heard differently. Ephedrene HCL and Ephedra are two different things, so I thought. So a good stack would be Vaso pro (25 mg), caffeine, and Yohimbine HCL or should I look for the pure Ephedra, stackers, or whatever is the best supplement containing such? Also what do you think about the Vaso pro and Dymatize dymaburn stack? What products have you used to recieve results?

[Suareezay]

Its ephedrIne.

Ephedrine is all you have to worry about.

Read my first two posts, i already answered everything.

I dont know anything about a vasopro dymatize stack. Diet has given me the best results, EC has helped. I havent bothered with any other products besides green tea extracts lately.

[adidamps2]

i tried Dymatize dymaburn. not worth the money...imo.

[TxLonghorn]

Listen to suareezay, he's giving you some good advice.

Ephedra is an herbal form of ephedrine. I am not sure, but I think ephedrene is a brand name, like coke or whatever that may or may not have ephedrine in it along with other goodies.

Basically the best thing to start with out of this bunch is ephedrine and caffeine. Don't worry about the yohimbe, because you'll **** up the timing, start having some serious sweats, you'll feel your heart pounding out of your chest, and you'll think you're gonna die. Because that's what happens when you put the two together, it's like pushing on the gas pedal of your car and pushing on the brakes as hard as you can at the same time.

Of course taking ephedrine and caffeine together to lose weight and not having a good diet plan is kind of like taking gear and not knowing how to work out. Sure, you'll notice some differences, but you will get so much farther and faster if you know what you are doing BEFORE you add supplements.

[Suareezay]

as far as i know, ephedrA is the actual plant, ephedrINE is the active component of the plant. I could be wrong though, as it doesnt really matter, because the ephedrine is what you want.

btw...whats up with these big "lock" icons...i thought this thread was gonna be locked for some reason

[slickg3]

So I should not be concerned with whether I buy Ephedrene HCL or Pure Ephedrene....just as long as its Ephedrene, right? Just want to cliarify this part of your statement, sorry. I was told that Pure Ephedrene or Ephedra would be better and safer than say the Ephedrene HCL in the Mega Pro Vaso Pro. Just want to make sure I have my facts strait...thanks a lot guys!!

[Suareezay]

no, you dont need to worry about it. VasoPro is the right stuff. Itll have gausifin (butchered the spelling) in it too...dont worry about it, its another asthma/expctorant thing.

im not 100% on this, but i think ephedrine HCL is "pure ephedrine".:think:

[TxLonghorn]

So I should not be concerned with whether I buy Ephedrene HCL or Pure Ephedrene....just as long as its Ephedrene, right? Just want to cliarify this part of your statement, sorry. I was told that Pure Ephedrene or Ephedra would be better and safer than say the Ephedrene HCL in the Mega Pro Vaso Pro. Just want to make sure I have my facts strait...thanks a lot guys!!

Ok, ephedra is the herbal form. Ephedrine is the actual active chemical. If you get something with ephedra in it, it will have something like this on it: 500mg of ephedra standardized to 5% or something similar. That means that you will have ~25mg of active chemical ephedrine for your body to play with. Think of it like this, if you get some no-doz, it has 200mg of caffeine in it, but if you get some herbal 'don't sleep' crap, it might have 500mg of kola nut standardized to 5%. Kola nut has caffeine in it. Kola nut is to ephedra as caffeine is to ephedrine.

And ephedrene is ephedrine misspelled.

As for guaifenesin (I have no clue how to spell that one...), it is an expectorant as well as a downer. The government, in their infinite wisdom, is deathly afraid of meth for some unknown reason, and they forced makers of ephedrine to put it in there to curb meth makers from wanting to use it to make meth. It also has the unfortunate side of not letting you take ephedrine as an alternative to caffeine or other 'stay awake' thingies. I say unfortunate, because it was much better than drinking a coke to study.

So the meth makers apparently went to using pseudo-ephedrine, which was in just about every known decongestant...so then our government, in their infinite wisdom, all but made psuedo-e illegal, and now we are left with a pale shadow of a replacement, phenylephrine. Phenylephrine sucks donkey balls compared to pseudo-e as a decongestant. So now I apparently have to go out in search of a ****ing meth lab so I can breath with my allergies.

From what I have been told, the added guaf does not affect the ephedrine's efficacy for fat burning.

[Suareezay]

good detective skills Tx.

[slickg3]

I really appreciate all the advice and help boys. I have placed my order and pumped to finish up my cutting cycle. As for taking the supplements, I noticed you said start with 25 mg or 1 pill and 200 mg of caffeine. Is this the safest route, or should I began with a lower dose say 12.5 and 200 for 5-6 days then bump to 25 for 4-5 days then bump to two 25's for 7 days.... and should I stop here or go to 3 a day to finish up?? Just want to make sure I have the most effective and cautious schedule, I know I am a hassle, but the only dumb question is the one never asked, right!! Remember I have never taken these before . Appreaciate it fellas...

[Suareezay]

yea you can slowly build up to assess your tolerance.

first time i took EC i felt like i was dying. Now it has zero noticable effect on me.

[TxLonghorn]

You know your own body, so you'll have to do what's right for you.

If you have any concerns, start with 12.5mg bid. You can then up it to 25mg bid.

The problem that you may have is that ephedrine affects your prostate. The older you are, the more it affects it. I basically can't take ephedrine anymore, and haven't been able to since I was in my early 20's. If I do, I feel like I need to pee all the time as well as feeling like a small monkey has a death grip on my prostate.

However, you might want to take some a half hour to an hour before you have sex, ephedrine has the ability to give you staying power, and if you are in shape, you can go for hours if you know what you're doing. And if you add a couple of beers, dayum! Ahhh, good times, good times.

[TxLonghorn]

yea you can slowly build up to assess your tolerance.

first time i took EC i felt like i was dying. Now it has zero noticable effect on me.

Unlike other meds, ephedrine does NOT lose it's efficacy after time (at least for a year), even after the user has developed a 'tolerance' for it and doesn't notice the increase in energy anymore. Some think it has to do with bat (brown adipose tissue) and how ephedrine relates to it.

I just know in every study I've ever seen, eph/caff beats any other weightloss med easily. When they basically took this off the market as well as phenylpropnolamine (ppa - otherwise known as dexatrim), we lost the best otc tools for cutting.

Hell, I remember getting 1000 tabs of ephedrine for something like $30. Now if you bought that much, you'd have the police busting down your door.

[Suareezay]

oh i know...what i meant was i could hardly stand the nauseating effects of it in the beginning, now i cant even conciously tell that im taking it. Its still doing its job though.

[slickg3]

Really appreciate it fellas, so I should stop at 3 times a day, correct?? Running this cycle for around 1 month or shorter or longer??

[Suareezay]

yea i wouldnt go over three.

how long you run it depends on your current BF level and your goals. There is no long term research on the effects of higher dose E after 6 months. I probably wouldnt go any longer than that.

[krupt]

Im still trying to make gains so I'm not looking for anything, but would clen be stronger than ephedrine? I think it is, but just making sure. And how much does clen cost from the internet cuz i picked up like 10 bottles for 7 bucks each from mexico.

[Suareezay]

id stay away from clen. To be honest, im starting to believe that DNP taken correctly is a safer alternative...but i definatly dont advocate it...i believe its a chemical in bug killer, and it can easily kill you.
http://cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/s...threadid=13091

[TxLonghorn]

id stay away from clen. To be honest, im starting to believe that DNP taken correctly is a safer alternative...but i definatly dont advocate it...i believe its a chemical in bug killer, and it can easily kill you.
http://cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/s...threadid=13091

Dnp, now we're talkin'!

I also believe it's a safer alternative, and I've posted as much throughout the years. Be careful sua, you will get some strong reactions out of people if you think dnp is ok.

As for clen being stronger than ephedrine, that answer is yes and no. Yes it is for 10-14 days, after that, if loses it's efficacy and you have to lay off of it for some time. Clen has never interested me that much, but I do seem to recall others trying to figure a way around the shutdown from clen.

[slickg3]

Ok, well I got my stuff today and plan to begin next week. As far as cardio goes I am going to bump it up to 4 days a week at an incline of 12 for about 30 minutes at about 3.5 -4.5 mph. Is this style of cardio better than HIT 3 minutes 4.5 and 2 minutes 7.0-8.0 mph at no incline? I know the subject matter has shifted, but I want to make sure my workouts are in check as well. What do you guys do that seems to work the best or have heard a majority of people have the largest amount of benefit from? I have heard it depends on you mostly, but I know there has to be some type of majority opinion out there. Does incline help? What speed is most effective? How long is the best workout (minutes or distance)? How do you guys rate the opposing views? Also note that in between these four days of cardio, I will be doing 2 workout sessions to help maintain my muscle (mostly compound exercies). Is this a comfortable schedule or do you recommend something else? Any and all comments accepted, thank you very much!!

[Suareezay]

Dnp, now we're talkin'!

I also believe it's a safer alternative, and I've posted as much throughout the years. Be careful sua, you will get some strong reactions out of people if you think dnp is ok.

As for clen being stronger than ephedrine, that answer is yes and no. Yes it is for 10-14 days, after that, if loses it's efficacy and you have to lay off of it for some time. Clen has never interested me that much, but I do seem to recall others trying to figure a way around the shutdown from clen.

yea i havent really looked too extensively into DNP because
1. i dont need it
2. i doubt i ever will
but from the little literature/discussions/logs ive read regarding DNP, as long as you can handle the heat/lethargy/insomnia/etc, and use a low but effective dose, then its as "safe" as an extreme body composition-altering compound can be. Not to mention the fact that its infinity times more effective than clen.

As for the shutdown from clen, people use Ketofien (sp?) for that to be able to run it continuously.

[krupt]

DNP..whats the full name of it?