Creatine in Protien Shake?

[Bones Justice]

2 part question


post workout shake:
Protien
Dex
10g creatine

Would the creatine still get absorbed even though the shake does not have a high GI level or does it not matter?

2. Do you guys mix your creatine with the gatorate or juice or just take a spoonfull into mouth and wash it down with the juice. Is a glass of Gatorate enough for 5 - 10 g of Creatine?

[Frosty]

Originally posted by Bones Justice
2 part question


post workout shake:
Protien
Dex
10g creatine

Would the creatine still get absorbed even though the shake does not have a high GI level or does it not matter?

2. Do you guys mix your creatine with the gatorate or juice or just take a spoonfull into mouth and wash it down with the juice. Is a glass of Gatorate enough for 5 - 10 g of Creatine?

Creatine will get absorbed without carbs, but carbs HELP. I don't see how your PWO shake wouldn't be high GI since it has dextrose in it. The dextrose should take care of things perfectly.

[benson4444]

Protein actually slows down the absorption of creatine into the cells. Insulin on the other hand forces creatine into the cells. This insulin is released when you drink the high carbohydrate drink(apple and grape juice are the highest in carbs). I like to use the powder forms of juice that way I can add a little more sugar.So dont take the creatine with the protein shake. What i do is take the creatine with me to the gym and drink it right after the workout. That way when I get home its been 20-30mins. All of these shakes that include creatine in them are bogus. The protein phases out the creatine. Hope it helps.

[Frosty]

How does protein slow down creatine absorption in the cells?

[YellowJacket]

Whey protein illicts an insulin response of its own, not sure how it slows down creatine absorbtion.

[benson4444]

This is quote from MuscleMag International's Anabolic Primer book(Phil Embleton and Gerard Thorne) "Conversely , taking creatine with a high protein meal reduces absorption and storage." Another quote"Studies consistently show that insulin forces creatine into muscle cells. Therefore the more insulin available, the more creatine that can be stored." The whole point of the Atkins diet is to suppress insulin, because insulin signals the body to start using the energy it has aquired through the stomach, where as keeping insulin levels low allows the body to use its own source of energy(catabolism) such as muscle protein, fat, etc. Carbohydrates trigger insulin spikes protein does not. Although maybe different proteins have different responses to insulin levels.

[Frosty]

Originally posted by benson4444
This is quote from MuscleMag International's Anabolic Primer book(Phil Embleton and Gerard Thorne) "Conversely , taking creatine with a high protein meal reduces absorption and storage." Another quote"Studies consistently show that insulin forces creatine into muscle cells. Therefore the more insulin available, the more creatine that can be stored." The whole point of the Atkins diet is to suppress insulin, because insulin signals the body to start using the energy it has aquired through the stomach, where as keeping insulin levels low allows the body to use its own source of energy(catabolism) such as muscle protein, fat, etc. Carbohydrates trigger insulin spikes protein does not. Although maybe different proteins have different responses to insulin levels.

What is the definition of a "high protein meal"? What they used in the study will matter a LOT.

Also, what time frame did they study the creatine absorption and storage? For example, if you ate a high protein meal from beef, then the meat and the fat will slow gastric emptying, and if you looked at creatine storage in a short period of time, it could look like it's reduced.

Also, whey definitely stimulates an insulin response. The problem I have with applying this to a PWO protein shake is they used "a high protein meal," not a whey protein shake.

[YellowJacket]

Im not touching any of those questions, too many holes its comical.

[benson4444]

A protein shake has about 20 grams of protein per serving. Most people are using about 1-3 servings 2-3 times a day Thats between 60-180 grams a day.(That is considered low for some people). The RDA of protein for average males is about 80 grams a day. If you dont consider a protein shake a high protein meal, well maybe not a meal but high protein supplement, I dont know what is. Isnt that why you would drink one.(For excess protein.) When I drink a packet of Met rx I can barely finish off half a sandwich. Its basically a meal and im full. Im almost 200lbs too.

[Frosty]

A meal and a protein shake are two very different things.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by benson4444
A protein shake has about 20 grams of protein per serving. Most people are using about 1-3 servings 2-3 times a day Thats between 60-180 grams a day.(That is considered low for some people). The RDA of protein for average males is about 80 grams a day. If you dont consider a protein shake a high protein meal, well maybe not a meal but high protein supplement, I dont know what is. Isnt that why you would drink one.(For excess protein.) When I drink a packet of Met rx I can barely finish off half a sandwich. Its basically a meal and im full. Im almost 200lbs too.

Ps. study the dynamics of a liquid meal versus a whole meal. And youve still avoided the fact whey protein without dextrose or carbs still illicts an insulin response, aiding creatine uptake...... Im waitin...

[benson4444]

How and why does whey protein illicit an insulin response?

[YellowJacket]

Amino acids.

[benson4444]

but all proteins, including plant and animal sources contains amino acids not just whey protein. Some being essential and some being non essential. Chicken is the only natural food source that conatins all the amino acids.

[benson4444]

Yes a meal and a protein shake are different. But what about meal replacements? I add a peach or bananna to my Met rx meal replacement. This meal replacement does come close to meeting the RDA's of most vitamins and minerals and liquid forms of food are better absorbed. I also think that meal substitues shouldnt be used for every meal.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by benson4444
but all proteins, including plant and animal sources contains amino acids not just whey protein. Some being essential and some being non essential. Chicken is the only natural food source that conatins all the amino acids.

Thank you ol wise one, this wouldnt be possible without you.......


On a serious note, you've yet to make a valid point. Whey protein's relative speedy digestion is the reason the amino acids are able to illict an insulin response.

[benson4444]

What about plant proteins? Arent plants digested speedily? Wait, plants cant be digested so wouldnt that make ithem even faster? But do plants illicit an insulin response minus the fructose?

[YellowJacket]

Please elaborate on why one would consume plant proteins post workout with creatine?

[benson4444]

my original point was not to eat protein and creatine together post workout.

[Frosty]

Originally posted by benson4444
What about plant proteins? Arent plants digested speedily? Wait, plants cant be digested so wouldnt that make ithem even faster? But do plants illicit an insulin response minus the fructose?

If plants can't be digested, then how would that a) elicit an insulin response, and b) if something is either difficult to digest or impossible, then how would that make it digested faster? When things are difficult to digest, that slows digestion, like beans, peanuts, and things with lots of fiber.

Plants aren't digested quickly and don't contain a lot of protein, so it's not going to elicit much of anything this way.

[Frosty]

Originally posted by benson4444
my original point was not to eat protein and creatine together post workout.

But why? You haven't given an actual reason why whey and creatine together is a bad idea. Whey and carbs produce a higher insulin response, which would be good for creatine storage.

[benson4444]

Well talk more tommorrow i have to get some beauty rest. Cool?

[benson4444]

n

[benson4444]

Frosty, have you everheard of glucagon? And that the liver produces it in response to any protein.

[Frosty]

Originally posted by benson4444
Frosty, have you everheard of glucagon? And that the liver produces it in response to any protein.

Are you saying whey stimulates both an insulin response AND a glucagon response?

Are you also suggesting that the body is going to be secreting glucagon when you ingest all those carbs in your shake???