4-ad

[afjoe]

Hey guys,
Ok I have a ? for you. I am about to start my 1'st cycle of prohormones....I bought 4-AD(4-androstene-3beta,17beta-diol) and was wondering if I had to stack it to get good results. Everyone is telling me to stack it w/either 19-nor or 1-AD...What do you suggest...I was going to take 3 200mg doses a day(600mg total). If I do need to stack it what would you suggest I stack it with and where and how much can I get it(I need internet companys because I am serving overseas). Also If you dont think I should stack it is 600mg enough? Thanks in advance

[buddy6]

I used a 4-diol stack and had good gains. I gained 13lbs of lean mass. Just finished the stack today so I don't know how much was water. I stacked it wwith 19-Nor.
Breakfast 250mg 19-Nor
Lunch (non training days 250mg of 4-diol) or on training days 500 mg 30-45min before workout
Dinner 250mg of 19-Nor

[pokkeyy]

Ok, this subject is a can of worms for me, it has been my main focus throughout my masters program. * So what i have to say is from research conducted by me and read by me, but i have never taken myself...it is sold from 100-300mg, but has been known to be administered up to 600mg (4 weeks on one week off). There was no difference in the rise of testosterone from 300mg to 600mg. It claims to have ribulus Terrestris: believed to enhance testosterone levels by increasing luteinizing hormones… in order to keep natural production of testosterone
Aromatase inhibitors: block pathway that turns 4-ad into estrogen....

now with that said, I have read over 37 studies (those are just the ones i list on my bib for my thesis) and EVERY SINGLE ONE found the same results: Statistically significant elevations in testosterone concentrations are not accompanied by any functional benefits
No strength increases
No favorable changes in body mass
No changes in muscle tissue
Increases estrogen sub fractions
No effect on muscle protein synthesis or anabolism
Impairs lipid metabolism
Increases urinary concentrations
testosterone –to-epitestosterone ratio can rise above 6:1

To add to that, we all know the steroid act of 1990 but it states 4 things must occur for it to be labeled an anabolic steroid:
1)Substance must have molecular structure related to testosterone
2)Must have pharmacology related to testosterone
3)Can not be an estrogen. Progestin, or corticosteriod
4)Must promote muscle growth
ok so, andro is #1, #2, and #3 so tell me if it did #4 (promoting muscle growth, which is why i am sure you are taking it) would it still be a legal over the counter supplement???

ok so now off my soap box... just thought i would throw in my $.02

[pullinbig]

you guys taking 4ad orally? what a waste. 4adne at 75mg/d IM works wonders.

[r3ver3nd]

Originally posted by pokkeyy
Ok, this subject is a can of worms for me, it has been my main focus throughout my masters program. * So what i have to say is from research conducted by me and read by me, but i have never taken myself...it is sold from 100-300mg, but has been known to be administered up to 600mg (4 weeks on one week off). There was no difference in the rise of testosterone from 300mg to 600mg. It claims to have ribulus Terrestris: believed to enhance testosterone levels by increasing luteinizing hormones… in order to keep natural production of testosterone
Aromatase inhibitors: block pathway that turns 4-ad into estrogen....

now with that said, I have read over 37 studies (those are just the ones i list on my bib for my thesis) and EVERY SINGLE ONE found the same results: Statistically significant elevations in testosterone concentrations are not accompanied by any functional benefits
No strength increases
No favorable changes in body mass
No changes in muscle tissue
Increases estrogen sub fractions
No effect on muscle protein synthesis or anabolism
Impairs lipid metabolism
Increases urinary concentrations
testosterone –to-epitestosterone ratio can rise above 6:1

To add to that, we all know the steroid act of 1990 but it states 4 things must occur for it to be labeled an anabolic steroid:
1)Substance must have molecular structure related to testosterone
2)Must have pharmacology related to testosterone
3)Can not be an estrogen. Progestin, or corticosteriod
4)Must promote muscle growth
ok so, andro is #1, #2, and #3 so tell me if it did #4 (promoting muscle growth, which is why i am sure you are taking it) would it still be a legal over the counter supplement???

ok so now off my soap box... just thought i would throw in my $.02

Hey, just thought I'd just in here cause I have flirted with the idea of prohormones, or other "alternatives" to steroids.

Basically, in your post, you are saying that many studies show that that stuff is bullshit?

Just wanna make sure I read that correctly, thanks!

[Insane_Man]

Prohormones are just a less effective way of taking steroids. They converts to steroid hormones but also to other shit as well, and the conversion rates are quite bad too. If you're gonna go legal take 1-Test, it's a legal steroid, because it is the target hormone. You can make it into an injectable of take M1T orally.

Oral regular 1-T is pretty ineffective since most is destroyed by your liver.

[pullinbig]

Originally posted by pokkeyy
Ok, this subject is a can of worms for me, it has been my main focus throughout my masters program. * So what i have to say is from research conducted by me and read by me, but i have never taken myself...it is sold from 100-300mg, but has been known to be administered up to 600mg (4 weeks on one week off). There was no difference in the rise of testosterone from 300mg to 600mg. It claims to have ribulus Terrestris: believed to enhance testosterone levels by increasing luteinizing hormones… in order to keep natural production of testosterone
Aromatase inhibitors: block pathway that turns 4-ad into estrogen....

now with that said, I have read over 37 studies (those are just the ones i list on my bib for my thesis) and EVERY SINGLE ONE found the same results: Statistically significant elevations in testosterone concentrations are not accompanied by any functional benefits
No strength increases
No favorable changes in body mass
No changes in muscle tissue
Increases estrogen sub fractions
No effect on muscle protein synthesis or anabolism
Impairs lipid metabolism
Increases urinary concentrations
testosterone –to-epitestosterone ratio can rise above 6:1

To add to that, we all know the steroid act of 1990 but it states 4 things must occur for it to be labeled an anabolic steroid:
1)Substance must have molecular structure related to testosterone
2)Must have pharmacology related to testosterone
3)Can not be an estrogen. Progestin, or corticosteriod
4)Must promote muscle growth
ok so, andro is #1, #2, and #3 so tell me if it did #4 (promoting muscle growth, which is why i am sure you are taking it) would it still be a legal over the counter supplement???

ok so now off my soap box... just thought i would throw in my $.02

got news for ya pokkeyy, m1t, 4adne and oht are very effective. I know cause i have used them. my knowledge is first hand and not some lab test done under god knows what conditions. m1t is effective orally because it is methylated but the 4adne and oht are not so they will not be effective orally. 1t is effective IM but not orally. these powders need to be converted to injectables so they can be effective. I did a sample cycle of the 4adne IM @150mg/d. after 5 days i had gained 8 lbs, strength was up and my nips were sore as hell. this is the only hormone i was doing at the time.

I later did a 4 week cycle of m1t oral @25mg/d.
after 4 weeks i gained 13 lbs. strength was up asd well. but i had some severe sides so i stopped administration.

later did a cycle of oht IM at 200mg/d. after a few weeks i was leaning out, getting more vascular and some strenghth increase. apperas that this is more of a cutting tool. it is also a very potyent anti E.

hope this helps someone. true life data.